So afresh what I'm saying, you know, you're catechism is what's the harm? It's abandoned a nickel or <a href="www.jwhandle.com">Suitcase Wheel</a> is abandoned 19 bucks or 20 bucks a year or something like that. My catechism is - partly is, what's, you know, what's the good? And if in actuality artificial accoutrements don't accomplish us that abundant of the decay stream, that artificial accoutrements are not causing that abounding problems, why does the government, why is the absence that the government can arise in and say hey, you apperceive what? Do it this way. Do it our way rather than your way or hit the highway. I anticipate that's problematic. MARTIN: Michael, how about the argument, there's an altercation that artificial accoutrements are in actuality bigger for the ambiance than agenda or reusable bolt bags, you know, that accounts for all kinds of things. You know, the armament to abode in and to transport, you know, added accoutrements and so forth. That artificial accoutrements are in actuality used, reused for a lot of altered things, that they're added germ-free and so forth. What - accept you anytime evaluated that catechism and what accept you accomplish of it?

Wow, I haven't abandoned evaluated that question, no. But, you know, environmentalists and approved consumers are chargeless to accomplish choices and, you know, I accept to use reusable accoutrements and we accept to animate added bodies to do that as well. MARTIN: And what about Nick's altercation that it's just too top a bulk to pay for too little benefit? BOLINDER: I, you know, I accept that there's like a triage of corruption that exists out there. Artificial makes up a in actuality cogent bulk of the debris that's in the oceans and in our abandoned waterways. You know, we can array of bang about facts.. MARTIN: Mm-hmm. GILLESPIE: Mm-hmm. BOLINDER: Ninety-seven percent of Laysan Albatross breed that were activate asleep by the Monterey Bay Aquarium in California, they all had artificial in their stomachs.

Actuality in Washington D.C., we accept nesting ospreys and baldheaded eagles, and if you go assay baldheaded hawkeye backup or osprey nests those nests are literally, they're alloyed calm by artificial accoutrements and those artificial accoutrements wind up in the bellies of the young. MARTIN: Hmm. Nick, we accept a minute left, and I gave Michael the aboriginal words. GILLESPIE: Sure. MARTIN: I'm traveling to accord you the endure word. What's your bigger idea? GILLESPIE: Well, you know, my bigger abstraction is to if we ambition to, you know, aboriginal off we've been abbreviation litter. We've been abbreviation roadside clutter abundantly - even Accumulate America Admirable says that, and we've been accomplishing that through advisory campaigns largely. Artificial accoutrements are a technology that are useful, bodies like them because they're bargain and they're in actuality ambrosial adequate at what they do.

They use abundant beneath assets than they did even 20 years ago. And I anticipate everybody should admit aggregate is tradeoffs. And, you know, Ireland in 2002 anesthetized a artificial bag ban. There was a backlash aftereffect afterwards use traveling down. Bodies assured up affairs added thicker artificial accoutrements in adjustment to, you know, apple-pie up afterwards their dogs, bandage their bird cages and they've had to acceptance their bag tax. MARTIN: Well, this has been a affluent chat and I acknowledge you for that. And I aswell apologize for the artificial bottles of baptize that I just handed to you. I should accept accustomed you both a bowl cup. I'll do bigger next time. (LAUGHTER) MARTIN: Nick Gillespie is editor-in-chief of Acumen magazine. That's a autonomous journal. Michael Bolinder works Anacostia Riverkeeper. That's a accumulation that tries to assure and abutment the Anacostia River actuality in Washington, D.C. Acknowledge you both so abundant for speaking with us.